When Mom, 91, sees her doctor, I often join the conversation in the examining room. Today, it was a good thing I did.
Mom mentioned she was sleeping less, and asked the nurse about it. The nurse hesitated, then reassured her that older people need less sleep.
Does anybody still believe this?
For a medical professional to be this ill-informed pissed me off. The nurse hesitated before answering, as if she didn’t really know, and then spewed an old trope. My mom nodded as if resigned.
I jumped in. “Actually, older people need just as much sleep as anybody else–seven to eight hours a night–but it’s harder to get as you age.”
I realized the nurse might be offended that I contradicted her, but I don’t give a crap. To me, it reflects the ubiquitous ageism in all our institutions. This mistaken belief about elders and sleep was disproven a long time ago.
And another thing: I was at least twenty years older than the nurse, and I felt empowered by my gray hair and life experience. A nice little side-benefit of aging.
Interestingly, older people sleep less because certain sleep-inducing neurons in your brain die off. Oh, I know. Great, right? Here’s the article if you want to read more.
Lately I’ve had trouble getting enough sleep because the second I wake up, usually at around 4 a.m., I can’t stop thinking about all I have to / want to do. Part of this is wonderful–it’s nice to be excited about your life. Part of it is being overextended commitment-wise. I would like to be less busy, but that’s a continuing challenge with which I grapple. Maybe one day I’ll be mature enough to say ‘no’.
Until then, I have certain strategies for getting as much sleep as possible: I exercise (could do more) and meditate (ditto); I don’t look at a computer screen or challenge my brain after 7 p.m.; and I go to bed as early as possible, since I’ll pop awake early no matter what. I suspect my long-term solution will be to have less on my plate.
How about you? Are you getting enough sleep? Have you found a good tactic for ensuring sleep?
OK I’m sure I will be late to the ball with my post response — I love to sleep and I love REM sleep (dreaming) even more!! I relish the “other life” that I live in dreams. I work a bunch of issues out at night. Anyway….two things that i noticed peri- and post menopause: my sleep was interrupted with either hot flashes or some other discomfort like bladder emptying. I tried everything (from a sprinkling of hormones in which i never got the ratios correct and blew up like a balloon to warm baths to Benadryl before bed) and found 20 mg of Melatonin to give me the uninterrupted sleep i needed. In the deep dark of winter I go to bed at 8 pm, read for a bit, fall asleep by 9pm, and usually wake at 4 am like you, but i try go back for 40 more winks until 5:30. I guess 7 to 8 hrs in the norm. I never nap, however, but I do sit and zone out — which I call meditation.
Recently, I had a full check-up and received the not-so-glorious news I am pre-diabetic — which explains my crankiness when I miss a meal, the stomach blubber that loves me and won’t leave, and the annoying bladder emptying which interrupts my sleep (see first sentence:). I know SUGAR in all forms of food intake must be removed from my diet and healthy oils and fats included. (YES, good fats are well, good for us 🙂 Lynne, Check out the documentary, when you have a chance, called “Sugar Coated” which won a Canadian Screen Award. It is very interesting, and the research started right here on the front range in my beloved Colorado with the end of Great Western.
Great comment Heather. All the changes we go through at this point of life are so interesting (and frustrating too.) It occurs to me that teenagers and adolescents go through such a powerful transition, but (a) it’s their first time, so they can’t compare it to anything, like we can, and (b) they don’t have the words or experience to verbalize it. I guess in that sense, age is easier. Good to hear from you.
Lynne: I don’t know how I missed this post, so I apologize for my late comment. I used to wake up anytime between 1 and 3 (after falling asleep at 10:00 within 10 seconds of my head hitting the pillow), and I would stay awake for at least two hours. I tried the mental exercise of trying to push every thought that tried to come into my head out–almost like a physical push. That worked sometimes. But what I found works the best is a kind of silly “positive thinking” approach, and it is working like a charm. I focus on one writing issue–plot, character, dialogue, whatever I’ve been having trouble with–and make myself think it through. By focusing that way, I manage to put myself to sleep, almost as if with boredom. And I feel like I’m accomplishing something with that wake time, as well. Another thing that has helped has been cutting down on the evening wine, which means I don’t get that alcohol-to-sugar rush four hours after going to bed. But even without wine, the waking can continue. Anyway, with my new approach, I no longer dread the waking, and I think the fact that it doesn’t upset me anymore also helps me fall back to sleep.
Marj, thanks for telling us your strategies. There are so many good ideas on this post, it’s really amazing how resourceful we can be when facing problems like this. Your comment is much appreciated.
Sleep was elusive to me beginning in my 50s. Before that I loved to sleep and would get 8 hours regularly. Menopause did me in and I think I went 6 months without regular sleep. I’d go into what I called suspended animation… totally aware, but resting. I finally went on HRT and my sleep became much better. At 65 my new doctor thought I should stop taking the hormones and I felt good about doing that, however, within a month I was back to suspended animation. I was shocked that this happened again. The doctor was reluctant to prescribe HRT, but after trying, benedryl, trazadone and other PM OTC drugs I convinced her to put me back on HRT. I’m sleeping again. I exercise, do yoga,have regular bedtimes, use all sorts of relaxing techniques, eat early and have forever. The hormones seem to be the only thing that works.
I can’t believe that nurse said that. When I don’t sleep I feel grouchy and lethargic. It’s no way to live.
To your last sentence, Nanci, how often do we see old people described as grouchy and (synonym for lethargic). No wonder! The horror of it is that sleep isn’t considered a necessity for them. When I think about the noise and light of hospitals and rest homes, it makes me crazy. And also them.
Glad you found what works.
Lynne,
Just to be the devil’s advocate—you told us what the nurse said, but never what the doctor told your mom about sleeping less?
I’d better choose my words with great care.
I had a look at the Huffington Post article—it’s true that if we “allow” normal aging to take over (sorry, from after 30 and even earlier) things die off, not only neurons.
The good news is, there’s much we can do to prevent those neurons from dying off. Many of which you mentioned.
Dementia can be better prevented than treated.
Sleeping less with aging can be associated (often is) with many chronic illnesses, such as hypertension, diabetes, depression etc.
Untreated sleep apnea in older people can also play a role.
Enough of the negative (from my side) – have a look at the following two “takes” on growing older and what to do about it and our sleep.
1. Spark: The revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the brain. John J Ratey – http://amzn.to/2iS97UR
2. Charles Eugster – bodybuilding in your nineties – http://bit.ly/2eOL7hd
Perhaps it’s not a bad idea to go to bed at 11-12 pm rather and then wake at 5 – 6 am?
Thanks for a thought provoking post, Lynne!
And thanks for a thought-provoking answer, Daniel! It’s always a pleasure to hear from you. To your question, we didn’t actually ask the doctor. But Mom doesn’t have any of those chronic illnesses that you mentioned. For myself, I would love to go to sleep at 11 and wake up at 6, but I have a hard time sleeping past 4:30, no matter when I get to bed. Lastly, thank you for the book references. Both look really interesting and I will check them out. Happy New Year!
Hi Lynne! I so agree that the quality of our sleep is very important no matter what our age. I’m so glad science is finally coming out with all the reports of why and how it affects everything from thinking, to our memory, to our motor skills, and to the qualify of our wellbeing in every way. And good for you for speaking out to that nurse. As you said, we still need good sleep to feel good. As for me, I am fairly active and meditate as well so those definitely help to sleep. And as some of your other commentors have said, what you tell yourself when you wake up is critical. Sure my mind wants to start wandering if/when I wake up (especially to go to the bathroom) but as a meditator I KNOW that I can focus my mind on “nothing” and usually get back to sleep. Although we did get a small above ground hot tub this year and sitting in there right before bed is wonderfully relaxing.! ~Kathy
Must. Meditate. More.
New Year’s Resolution #283.
I am usually in bed by nine. I watch TV for a half hour. Nothing stimulating, usually a comic re-run that I have probably seen ten times before. This works for me and by 9:30 I am asleep. Hardly ever do I sleep past five. I enjoy my early morning hours and often go outside and just star gaze or say my morning prayers. This is my time-no one around to make any demands. But I am off the subject. I do think that taking a small nap in the afternoon is beneficial to older people and even if I don’t fall asleep I lay down and read for thirty or more minutes. Have read that this helps our older bodies but can’t remember how. Apparently it is not our memory.
Judy you crack me up. Recently I felt that draggy icky feeling you get when you can’t work up an interest in anything, and I flopped down on the sofa for about 20 minutes. I know I dozed a bit but never really felt as if I were asleep. But then I felt totally refreshed afterward. If that were a habit and it augmented my nighttime sleep, I would be happy.
That’s a “power nap!” It’s amazing what a little snooze can do for you.
Truly!!
I sleep about 5-6 hours a night, a habit for several decades. Waking up two hours after laying down, no matter the time or place, then resuming sleep after an hour awake, I have learned over the years to accommodate this quirk. I rarely get to REM level sleep, and no, there is no sleep apnea. Since retiring from full-time work, I give myself permission to take a nap if I need to. There is nothing that says you need to get the amount of sleep your body needs, all in one sitting.
Ginger, that’s reassuring. I sometimes wonder if I should just get up and read, and stop trying to go back to sleep. But the prospect of leaving the warm bed in favor of a cold living room…I guess I could stage a space heater by my chair. But again, your comment is reassuring.
I’ll try this again. My first response disappeared for some reason. So if I show up twice, please forgive me. I originally explained that when I wake up early, I say the words, “I choose to go back to sleep.” It seems to stop me from thinking. If a worrisome though creeps in, I add, “I surrender and trust.” It works most times for me.
Sorry about the technologicals, Libby. You have a strong mind. I’ve tried certain mental tactics, too. For example, when I was working fulltime and sleep was hard to come by, I became practiced at shutting everything out and counting backward from 100 with my inbreath and outbreath. It became enough of a relaxation technique that I could use it in the doctor’s office or dentist’s chair. Another technique is to relax my body, part by part from my toes to my scalp. (“My ankles are relaxing. I feel them becoming warm…”) I think this proves that if we can slow down our thinking, we can encourage drowsiness. But sometimes, for me, the physical predominates, so I also found that a couple of Tums and a 500 mg. Tylenol helps, which I sometimes take in the middle of the night. A fan aimed at the wall for white noise; a soft, lightweight pillow over my head. This post is turning into a sleep clinic 😉 Thanks for commenting.
I relate to all that has been said. What works for me (most times) is that when I wake up early, I immediately think the words, “I choose to go back to sleep.” It seems to stop my brain from taking over. If a worrisome thought begins, I say the words, “I surrender and trust.” It probably is a form of meditation as I’m still half asleep and not yet in a “thinking mode.” And I do need my sleep even though I’ll be 80 in a few months. You are so right about that.
Libby, I found the first one. It was awaiting approval for some reason.
I too began having problems sleeping all night beginning in my md 40s. It continued until I got my hormones in sync. I take bio identicals. Anyway, I went back to sleeping well and this lasted until after my mid 50s when I began having problems again. I mentioned it to my doctor and he suggested three supplements–magnesium citrate, zinc and maletonin. I already took magnesium, but it was magnesium oxide. He said it had to be citrate because my body couldn’t absorb the other kind. I also already took maletonin, but not regularly. He said it had to be regularly because the body needed to work up its levels. So I began taking all three in the strengths he suggested and I started sleeping again regularly after about two weeks. I now know, though, that it was the magnesium citrate that really made the difference. I’m always looking for the cheapest of anything, and all of a sudden after a year of sleeping well, I stopped sleeping. upon further examination of the bottle of magnesium which clearly said magnesium citrate on the front, I noticed that under the ingredients on the back, it said “may contain magnesium oxide”. I can run out of zinc or maletonin and sleep fine, but not the magnesium citrate. I’m almost 63 now and still sleep well. And I still take all three plus my bio identicals. I wrote a blog post about it.
http://oldageisnotforsissiesblog.com/?s=Citrate
Thanks for an informative comment, Cindy. If we can rebalance our chemistry in a healthful way, why not? I’m going to check this possibility with my doctor. Sleep is everything, I swear. It’s cognition and balance and attitude and healthy weight…While we’re on the subject, how the hell do they expect people in hospitals or “rest” homes to rest, with all the light and noise all night long?
So true about the lights in the hospitals. After my dad’s surgery for pancreatic cancer, I was furious with the surgical icu team that kept the whole place lit up like a runway during the night when the patients needed to be sleeping. I got him moved out of there as soon as possible to a private room where I had some control over his rest. Having said that, though, I learned that it is important for a long-term patient to wake during the day and to keep the window blind open and the lights on during the daytime. Delirium is another risk of hospital stays. You were right to correct that nurse. She was probably young and just needed educating as so many do.
“lit up like a runway.” Funny! Although probably a runway would be darker and more peaceful! I agree that we have to try to maintain our circadian rhythms (up when it’s light; down when it’s dark).
How ironic!! I just woke up – 5am – after waking up every hour and complained to my husband that I didn’t sleep well. He said it was because we slept well the night before. Part of the problem with open heart surgery is not sleeping well. I asked the doctor about it yesterday and he just shrugged. I am so happy you spoke up to the nurse, I have begun speaking up to everyone. They can use my wisdom and I am tired of being pushed around.
Oh, Donna, I hope you heal more to the point where you are able to sleep better, or you compensate by napping during the day. Sleep is so critical. I love your anger. I hate how they want to kick us to the curb if we’re not factory-shiny any more. Keep speaking up. You’ll be teaching, modeling strength for anyone who’s watching, and empowering yourself.
Oh, man, does this resonate with me. I’ve been awake since 3:15 a.m., after 5 hours of sleep. Like you, when I wake up, I start thinking about all I have to do, and it’s hard to get back to sleep. I wish I had answers–besides taking a pill (which I’ll resort to a couple or three times a month). I know that screen time too close to bed isn’t good (I have special yellow-tinted readers to offset the “bad” blue light if I just can’t stay off my phone), and more than a glass of wine will disrupt my sleep. I wonder if, should I ever “retire” and have less on my plate, I not only won’t have as much to obsess about but also not give a crap about waking early since I’ll be able to take a nap whenever I want (?). BTW, props to you for speaking up to that freakin’ nurse!
Roxanne, it’s comforting to know I’m not alone. I hate the idea of a nap, but I would do it if I thought it would keep me healthy. I take a sinus PM or Nyquil a couple times a month, trying to “catch up.” I retired for a few weeks last fall. My manuscript was with the editors so one big job–my whole writing career–was offline. I enjoyed social media, practiced piano, kicked back. It was frighteningly wonderful. I say it that way because I think it was better for me than the way I normally live. Good information I must, for the time, ignore.